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Discussion of "jbena"
[parent] [root]
Comment #8: Re: Asymmetry
Curtis W Franks (Mon Jan 16 23:51:43 2017)

gleki wrote:
> krtisfranks wrote:
> > This word is weird in that it has time and place of birth terbri. Why
are
>
> > other important life events (loss of virginity, marriage, divorce,
death,
>
> > etc.) not given gismu which are equipped similarly? There maybe should
be
> a
> > generic word for life event, too ("x1 experienced major life event x2
at
> > time x3 in location x4"). Sure, this one is the only one that is
> guaranteed
> > to anyone with whom one interacts (except death and taxes, in our
current
>
> > world) and someone actually does it (id est: births) to the subject,
> > whereas some of the other ones are more passive, but it is still weird.
> >
> > Or we can introduce a new word which just means "x1 is born to x2".
> >
> > mivbi'o, which would likely be modelled on mrobi'o, must be
factored
> > into all of these considerations too.
>
>
>
> oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to
>
http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid
> =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se rorci

> [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be
> important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being
> "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born while
> stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out of
> your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary.

That is a good point. But I would have just said "born via means x_i amd by
standard x_j".

Comment #9: Re: Asymmetry
gleki (Sat Jan 21 10:58:58 2017)

krtisfranks wrote:

> gleki wrote:
> > oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to
> >
>
http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid
> > =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se
rorci
>
> > [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be

> > important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being

> > "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born
while
> > stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out
of
> > your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary.
>
> That is a good point. But I would have just said "born via means x_i amd
by
> standard x_j".

So jbena then becomes superfluous since we have co'a panzi or rorci
(the latter for the case ">1 sexes" plus a special viewpoint). For stages
of biodevelopment there needs to be a new brivla completing makcu with
means of getting into the stage. Another brivla might be needed to shows
the circle of life (e.g. imago => egg => larva => imago) like

x1 enters its new stage of development (e.g. by laying eggs) by procreating
your-new-stage/offspring x2 (e.g. eggs of turning yourself into a larva).

This of course immediately leads to the bear-goo problem of "what is
individuum?" but that can be expressed via additional means like ("no
change of individuality from egg to larva" / "change of individuality from
imago to egg")

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