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Discussion of "tinto"

Comment #1: Question about color system
gleki (Thu Mar 3 14:03:35 2016)

colored - skari (generalization)

tinto - to have hue
? - to have colorfulness
? - to have chroma
? - to have saturation
? - to have lightness
? - to have brightness

If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system please
speak up!

Comment #2: Re: Question about color system
Curtis W Franks (Thu Mar 3 22:25:03 2016)

gleki wrote:
> colored - skari (generalization)
>
> tinto - to have hue
> ? - to have colorfulness
> ? - to have chroma
> ? - to have saturation
> ? - to have lightness
> ? - to have brightness
>
> If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system please
> speak up!

Not to my knowledge, but I approve.

Comment #4: Re: Question about color system
Curtis W Franks (Sun Mar 6 23:47:19 2016)

gleki wrote:
> colored - skari (generalization)
>
> tinto - to have hue
> ? - to have colorfulness
> ? - to have chroma
> ? - to have saturation
> ? - to have lightness
> ? - to have brightness
>
> If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system please
> speak up!


I added "xroma" for "chroma". I am sorry if you wanted to do that.

We should also have "luma".

Comment #5: Re: Question about color system
gleki (Mon Mar 7 06:09:28 2016)

krtisfranks wrote:
> gleki wrote:
> > colored - skari (generalization)
> >
> > tinto - to have hue
> > ? - to have colorfulness
> > ? - to have chroma
> > ? - to have saturation
> > ? - to have lightness
> > ? - to have brightness
> >
> > If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system
please
> > speak up!
>
>
> I added "xroma" for "chroma". I am sorry if you wanted to do that.
>
> We should also have "luma".


I'm not sure. I used "tinto" because it resembles "tinctus" and its
derivatives in other languages. That is it's a participle, "hued", not
"hued".
Not sure how to correctly say "having chroma" in major languages in one
word.

Comment #10: color system 2.0 alpha
gleki (Mon Mar 7 17:06:26 2016)

All belong to semantic frame SKARI_FREIME
skari - x1 has color x2 according to x3
? - x1 has hue x2 according to x3
? - x1 has colorfulness x2 according to x3
? - x1 has chromacity x2 according to x3
? - x1 has saturation x2 according to x3
? - x1 has lightness x2 according to x3
? - x1 has brightness x2 according to x3
? - x1 has chrominance x2 according to x3
? - x1 has gamut (span of/generated by color parameters) x2 according to x3

skari1 is an object, skari2 is a prototype object like lo ciblu or
lo xunre. There are no core words for "color" in Lojban, only
derivatives.

Comment #3: "Tint"
Curtis W Franks (Sun Mar 6 23:44:58 2016)

I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of
"tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness,
whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which
is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness, and
violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the light
blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a
culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness).

This is due to the fact that "tinto" is a lot like the English word for
"tint" phonologically, so it should match it semantically, if we want to
avoid unnecessary confusion.

I would also have preferred to go with "tinte".

I propose the "hue" (as described before) becomes some
gismu-generation-algorithm-generated gismu derived from English "cu" (for
"hue", although "ton" from "tone" also works), Spanish "ton" (from "tono"),
Russian "ton" (from the same), and whatsoever it is in Chinese, Hindi, and
Arabic.

Comment #6: Re:
gleki (Mon Mar 7 06:15:18 2016)

krtisfranks wrote:
> I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of

> "tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness,
> whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which

> is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness,
and
> violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the
light
> blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a
> culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness).
>
> This is due to the fact that "tinto" is a lot like the English word for
> "tint" phonologically, so it should match it semantically, if we want to
> avoid unnecessary confusion.
>
> I would also have preferred to go with "tinte".
>
> I propose the "hue" (as described before) becomes some
> gismu-generation-algorithm-generated gismu derived from English "cu" (for

> "hue", although "ton" from "tone" also works), Spanish "ton" (from
"tono"),
> Russian "ton" (from the same), and whatsoever it is in Chinese, Hindi,
and
> Arabic.

I started from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tinctus => tinto in
Portuguese.

Such words seem to be dying in polysemy ACROSS languages. Take sfumatura,
which has different meanings, and I chose only one.

So it maybe better not to borrow words precisely but to change to some
apriori mode to avoid sfumatura/tint confusions of speakers of the source
languages.

Comment #7: Re:
gleki (Mon Mar 7 06:30:13 2016)

gleki wrote:
> I started from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tinctus => tinto in
> Portuguese.
>
> Such words seem to be dying in polysemy ACROSS languages. Take
sfumatura,
> which has different meanings, and I chose only one.
>
> So it maybe better not to borrow words precisely but to change to some
> apriori mode to avoid sfumatura/tint confusions of speakers of the source

> languages.

Maybe some pseudo-suffix for all of them.
Not sfumatura but sfumatVCV.

tintari, sfumatari, xromari? (from skARI since they are specifications of
skari)

This will retain mnemonic power but will avoid confusion.

Or "ton-" for hue, yes.

Comment #8: Re:
Curtis W Franks (Mon Mar 7 08:11:48 2016)

krtisfranks wrote:
> I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of

> "tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness,
> whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which

> is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness,
and
> violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the
light
> blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a
> culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness).
>
> This is due to the fact that "tinto" is a lot like the English word for
> "tint" phonologically, so it should match it semantically, if we want to
> avoid unnecessary confusion.
>
> I would also have preferred to go with "tinte".
>
> I propose the "hue" (as described before) becomes some
> gismu-generation-algorithm-generated gismu derived from English "cu" (for

> "hue", although "ton" from "tone" also works), Spanish "ton" (from
"tono"),
> Russian "ton" (from the same), and whatsoever it is in Chinese, Hindi,
and
> Arabic.

We should also beware the difference between "chromacity" and
"chrominance".

We might want to eventually create a word (maybe lujvo) for "gamut"
(roughly: a span of/generated by color parameters).

Comment #9: Re:
gleki (Mon Mar 7 08:14:24 2016)

krtisfranks wrote:
> I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of

> "tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness,
> whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which

> is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness,
and
> violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the
light
> blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a
> culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness).

Feel free to downvote this one.

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