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Discussion of "tinto"
Comment #1:
Question about color system
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gleki (Thu Mar 3 14:03:35 2016)
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colored - skari (generalization)
tinto - to have hue ? - to have colorfulness ? - to have chroma ? - to have saturation ? - to have lightness ? - to have brightness
If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system please speak up!
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Comment #2:
Re: Question about color system
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Curtis W Franks (Thu Mar 3 22:25:03 2016)
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gleki wrote: > colored - skari (generalization) > > tinto - to have hue > ? - to have colorfulness > ? - to have chroma > ? - to have saturation > ? - to have lightness > ? - to have brightness > > If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system please > speak up!
Not to my knowledge, but I approve.
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Comment #4:
Re: Question about color system
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Curtis W Franks (Sun Mar 6 23:47:19 2016)
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gleki wrote: > colored - skari (generalization) > > tinto - to have hue > ? - to have colorfulness > ? - to have chroma > ? - to have saturation > ? - to have lightness > ? - to have brightness > > If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system please > speak up!
I added "xroma" for "chroma". I am sorry if you wanted to do that.
We should also have "luma".
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Comment #5:
Re: Question about color system
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gleki (Mon Mar 7 06:09:28 2016)
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krtisfranks wrote: > gleki wrote: > > colored - skari (generalization) > > > > tinto - to have hue > > ? - to have colorfulness > > ? - to have chroma > > ? - to have saturation > > ? - to have lightness > > ? - to have brightness > > > > If someone has already proposed something relevant to this system please > > speak up! > > > I added "xroma" for "chroma". I am sorry if you wanted to do that. > > We should also have "luma".
I'm not sure. I used "tinto" because it resembles "tinctus" and its derivatives in other languages. That is it's a participle, "hued", not "hued". Not sure how to correctly say "having chroma" in major languages in one word.
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Comment #10:
color system 2.0 alpha
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gleki (Mon Mar 7 17:06:26 2016)
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All belong to semantic frame SKARI_FREIME skari - x1 has color x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has hue x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has colorfulness x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has chromacity x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has saturation x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has lightness x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has brightness x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has chrominance x2 according to x3 ? - x1 has gamut (span of/generated by color parameters) x2 according to x3
skari1 is an object, skari2 is a prototype object like lo ciblu or lo xunre. There are no core words for "color" in Lojban, only derivatives.
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Comment #3:
"Tint"
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Curtis W Franks (Sun Mar 6 23:44:58 2016)
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I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of "tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness, whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness, and violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the light blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness).
This is due to the fact that "tinto" is a lot like the English word for "tint" phonologically, so it should match it semantically, if we want to avoid unnecessary confusion.
I would also have preferred to go with "tinte".
I propose the "hue" (as described before) becomes some gismu-generation-algorithm-generated gismu derived from English "cu" (for "hue", although "ton" from "tone" also works), Spanish "ton" (from "tono"), Russian "ton" (from the same), and whatsoever it is in Chinese, Hindi, and Arabic.
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Comment #6:
Re:
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gleki (Mon Mar 7 06:15:18 2016)
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krtisfranks wrote: > I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of
> "tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness, > whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which
> is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness, and > violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the light > blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a > culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness). > > This is due to the fact that "tinto" is a lot like the English word for > "tint" phonologically, so it should match it semantically, if we want to > avoid unnecessary confusion. > > I would also have preferred to go with "tinte". > > I propose the "hue" (as described before) becomes some > gismu-generation-algorithm-generated gismu derived from English "cu" (for
> "hue", although "ton" from "tone" also works), Spanish "ton" (from "tono"), > Russian "ton" (from the same), and whatsoever it is in Chinese, Hindi, and > Arabic.
I started from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tinctus => tinto in Portuguese.
Such words seem to be dying in polysemy ACROSS languages. Take sfumatura, which has different meanings, and I chose only one.
So it maybe better not to borrow words precisely but to change to some apriori mode to avoid sfumatura/tint confusions of speakers of the source languages.
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Comment #7:
Re:
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gleki (Mon Mar 7 06:30:13 2016)
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gleki wrote: > I started from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tinctus => tinto in > Portuguese. > > Such words seem to be dying in polysemy ACROSS languages. Take sfumatura, > which has different meanings, and I chose only one. > > So it maybe better not to borrow words precisely but to change to some > apriori mode to avoid sfumatura/tint confusions of speakers of the source
> languages.
Maybe some pseudo-suffix for all of them. Not sfumatura but sfumatVCV.
tintari, sfumatari, xromari? (from skARI since they are specifications of skari)
This will retain mnemonic power but will avoid confusion.
Or "ton-" for hue, yes.
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Comment #8:
Re:
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Curtis W Franks (Mon Mar 7 08:11:48 2016)
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krtisfranks wrote: > I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of
> "tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness, > whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which
> is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness, and > violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the light > blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a > culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness). > > This is due to the fact that "tinto" is a lot like the English word for > "tint" phonologically, so it should match it semantically, if we want to > avoid unnecessary confusion. > > I would also have preferred to go with "tinte". > > I propose the "hue" (as described before) becomes some > gismu-generation-algorithm-generated gismu derived from English "cu" (for
> "hue", although "ton" from "tone" also works), Spanish "ton" (from "tono"), > Russian "ton" (from the same), and whatsoever it is in Chinese, Hindi, and > Arabic.
We should also beware the difference between "chromacity" and "chrominance".
We might want to eventually create a word (maybe lujvo) for "gamut" (roughly: a span of/generated by color parameters).
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Comment #9:
Re:
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gleki (Mon Mar 7 08:14:24 2016)
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krtisfranks wrote: > I think that the definition of this word should actually be reflective of
> "tone", "tint", and "shade" (which are greyness/black-joi-white-ness, > whiteness, and blackness of a color, respectively) rather than hue (which
> is redness, greenness, blueness, and sometimes: yellowness, orangeness, and > violetness; I would also argue for indigoness (which is actually the light > blue in a rainbow, whereas "blue" is the dark blue) and a generalized "a > culturally identified and distinct color in a rainbow/spectrum"-ness).
Feel free to downvote this one.
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