jbovlaste
a lojban dictionary editing system
User:
Pass:

Home
Get A Printable Dictionary
Search Best Words
Recent Changes
How You Can Help
valsi - All
valsi - Preferred Only
natlang - All
natlang - Preferred Only
Languages
XML Export
user Listing
Report Bugs
Utilities
Status
Help
Admin Request
Create Account
Discussion of "fisli"
[parent] [root]
Comment #2: Re: lo terdi ka'e xu fisli?
Curtis W Franks (Wed Jul 2 21:37:13 2014)

gleki wrote:
> Is it an unambiguous replacement for "marji/dacti" but for physical
world
> studies by physics?
I would say that the set of referents of zo fisli is a strict superset
of the set of all those things which are dacti, which in turn is a strict
superset of the set of all those things which are marji. So, basically,
yes, although they might have slightly different implications.

In particular, energy (especially the total energy of the physical
universe) is arguably enduring throughout spacetime and therefore dacti
(although it is not material so the case would still be a hard one!) but
arguing for it being marji would he harder. It is definitely fisli though.

marji is bad for physical objects that are taken to be ideal (lacking
structure, etc.). Ideal springs or elementary particles are not really
marji even though I have in the last used the word in order to describe
them. Sometimes, though, they are not even dacti: there is no such thing
as an ideal spring and virtual particles are somewhat questionable in the
"enduring" department. But both are "physical" in some abstract sense
(sucfisli perhaps?).

Note: munje is a universe (which can be a collection of lo fisli of some
type governed by some rules); it can be taken to be physical, but need not
be so conceptually. In particular, an imaginary universe can follow other
metaphysics or not be physical at all (such as a spiritual world maybe).
What constitutes "physical" is pretty much up to speaker opinion, intent,
standard, and metaphysics. The rules of a universe are in some sense
physical (they affect physical things) but are also less so (they are on
some level conceptual or not actual, despite being real- I do not know how
to express this idea). The same goes for math.
Angular momenta vectors are interestingly in-between too. They definitely
matter in the physical world, but the actual right-hand rule result of the
cross-product is not really "there" (even as far as vectors go). It is
just a convenient way to encode information (even more removed from the
abstraction that other vectors such as linear momentum represent).

I would stick with the rule of Lojban being semantically vague in this
case.


> can an object be said to be actually "lo fisli"?

Hmmmmm... Interesting. My immediate thinking was "yes" (see previous
comment), but I suppose that that could be taken to be some sort of sumti
raising. It could just be an issue for philosophy. I would not specify
right now one way or the other by linguistic fiat in the definition. On my
part at least, much more thinking is necessary.

Comment #3: Re: lo terdi ka'e xu fisli?
gleki (Thu Jul 3 06:09:16 2014)

I suggest you provide a bunch of examples of where to use fisli bothas a
sumti and as a selbri. Ofc. it'd perfectly okay if those examples are e.g.
translations of some sentences from Wikipedia related to physics.

Comment #4: Re: lo terdi ka'e xu fisli?
Curtis W Franks (Thu Jul 3 07:11:46 2014)

gleki wrote:
> I suggest you provide a bunch of examples of where to use fisli bothas
a
> sumti and as a selbri. Ofc. it'd perfectly okay if those examples are
e.g.
> translations of some sentences from Wikipedia related to physics.

I will do that! Wonderful suggestion.

Currently, jbovlaste will accept data for 69 languages.
You are not logged in.

  recent changes jbovlaste main
This is jbovlaste, the lojban dictionary system.
The main code was last changed on Wed 07 Oct 2020 05:54:55 PM PDT.
All content is public domain. By submitting content, you agree to place it in the public domain to the fullest extent allowed by local law.
jbovlaste is an official project of the logical language group, and is now headed by Robin Lee Powell.
E-mail him if you have any questions.
care to log in?