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Discussion of "baitni"
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Comment #5:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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Curtis W Franks (Fri Jul 10 15:01:48 2015)
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spheniscine wrote: > Sorry, what are nats? Is it like bit, but in base e instead of base 2? > > Hm I think bit should be reserved for base 2. If those others are useful > perhaps a variant can be formed from it...
It is exactly that. It is basically the thermodynamic ("natural", in more than one sense) unit of information.
Maybe something along the lines of bitnrte'o (resp. baitnrte'o)? Possibly additionally, bitni (resp. baitni) could be a generic unit of information and zi'evla can be formed as above (bitnlre (resp. baitnlre)), or it can have a new terbri for specifying the base (which I suggest in any case).
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Comment #6:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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Jonathan (Fri Jul 10 15:04:18 2015)
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OK terbri added.
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Comment #7:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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gleki (Sat Jul 11 05:56:54 2015)
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spheniscine wrote: > OK terbri added.
Not to baitni yet. Strange that we have bi- prefix for nats.
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Comment #8:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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Curtis W Franks (Sat Jul 11 06:29:22 2015)
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gleki wrote: > spheniscine wrote: > > OK terbri added. > > > Not to baitni yet. Strange that we have bi- prefix for nats.
Well, Lojban can just ignore it. "rel" would be the way to go for a fully Lojbanic rendering; there is no particular reason for a Lojban speaker to associate this "bai"/"bi" with anything in particular. So, for them, it is just a relic of the borrowing, and the one word "bit"/"byte" stands in for all units of information.
The binary metric prefixes (IEC prefixes) would not apply to nats.
Now that I think about it, I am not sure that it is natural (or even common) to define a collection of nats in a way that is analogous to the relationship between a byte and a bit. I seriously doubt that it is eight nats that comprise this unit.
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Comment #9:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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gleki (Sat Jul 11 06:34:25 2015)
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krtisfranks wrote: > gleki wrote: > > spheniscine wrote: > > > OK terbri added. > > > > > > Not to baitni yet. Strange that we have bi- prefix for nats. > > Well, Lojban can just ignore it. "rel" would be the way to go for a fully
> Lojbanic rendering; there is no particular reason for a Lojban speaker to
> associate this "bai"/"bi" with anything in particular. So, for them, it is > just a relic of the borrowing, and the one word "bit"/"byte" stands in for > all units of information. > > The binary metric prefixes (IEC prefixes) would not apply to nats. > > Now that I think about it, I am not sure that it is natural (or even > common) to define a collection of nats in a way that is analogous to the > relationship between a byte and a bit. I seriously doubt that it is eight
> nats that comprise this unit.
Okay, what about trytes?
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Comment #10:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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Curtis W Franks (Sat Jul 11 06:55:05 2015)
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gleki wrote: > krtisfranks wrote: > > gleki wrote: > > > spheniscine wrote: > > > > OK terbri added. > > > > > > > > > Not to baitni yet. Strange that we have bi- prefix for nats. > > > > Well, Lojban can just ignore it. "rel" would be the way to go for a fully > > > Lojbanic rendering; there is no particular reason for a Lojban speaker to > > > associate this "bai"/"bi" with anything in particular. So, for them, it
> is > > just a relic of the borrowing, and the one word "bit"/"byte" stands in > for > > all units of information. > > > > The binary metric prefixes (IEC prefixes) would not apply to nats. > > > > Now that I think about it, I am not sure that it is natural (or even > > common) to define a collection of nats in a way that is analogous to the > > relationship between a byte and a bit. I seriously doubt that it is eight > > > nats that comprise this unit. > > > Okay, what about trytes?
That is more problematic and should be addressed. I think that the common grouping is six trits to the tryte (which still seems a bit weird to me from a mathematical perspective). We should be able to say that.
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Comment #13:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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Jonathan (Sun Jul 12 05:30:33 2015)
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krtisfranks wrote: > gleki wrote: > > krtisfranks wrote: > > > gleki wrote: > > > > spheniscine wrote: > > > > > OK terbri added. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to baitni yet. Strange that we have bi- prefix for nats. > > > > > > Well, Lojban can just ignore it. "rel" would be the way to go for a > fully > > > > > Lojbanic rendering; there is no particular reason for a Lojban speaker > to > > > > > associate this "bai"/"bi" with anything in particular. So, for them, it > > > is > > > just a relic of the borrowing, and the one word "bit"/"byte" stands in > > for > > > all units of information. > > > > > > The binary metric prefixes (IEC prefixes) would not apply to nats. > > > > > > Now that I think about it, I am not sure that it is natural (or even > > > common) to define a collection of nats in a way that is analogous to > the > > > relationship between a byte and a bit. I seriously doubt that it is > eight > > > > > nats that comprise this unit. > > > > > > Okay, what about trytes? > > That is more problematic and should be addressed. I think that the common
> grouping is six trits to the tryte (which still seems a bit weird to me > from a mathematical perspective). We should be able to say that.
lu <bitnymei be li xa bei li ci be'o cei traitni ca'e> li'u mu'a
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Comment #14:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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Jonathan (Sun Jul 12 05:35:47 2015)
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spheniscine wrote: > krtisfranks wrote: > > gleki wrote: > > > krtisfranks wrote: > > > > gleki wrote: > > > > > spheniscine wrote: > > > > > > OK terbri added. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to baitni yet. Strange that we have bi- prefix for nats. > > > > > > > > Well, Lojban can just ignore it. "rel" would be the way to go for a
> > fully > > > > > > > Lojbanic rendering; there is no particular reason for a Lojban > speaker > > to > > > > > > > associate this "bai"/"bi" with anything in particular. So, for them, > it > > > > > is > > > > just a relic of the borrowing, and the one word "bit"/"byte" stands
> in > > > for > > > > all units of information. > > > > > > > > The binary metric prefixes (IEC prefixes) would not apply to nats. > > > > > > > > Now that I think about it, I am not sure that it is natural (or even > > > > common) to define a collection of nats in a way that is analogous to > > the > > > > relationship between a byte and a bit. I seriously doubt that it is
> > eight > > > > > > > nats that comprise this unit. > > > > > > > > > Okay, what about trytes? > > > > That is more problematic and should be addressed. I think that the common > > > grouping is six trits to the tryte (which still seems a bit weird to me
> > from a mathematical perspective). We should be able to say that. > > > lu <bitnymei be li xa bei li ci be'o cei traitni ca'e> li'u mu'a .y. oise'i
.i je'au lu <lo ka ce'u traitni ca'e ce'u cu ka ce'u bitnymei ce'u li xa li ci> li'u
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Comment #11:
Re: What type of unit of information?
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Jonathan (Sun Jul 12 00:56:50 2015)
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I did not add it to baitni because baitni is a zi'evla defined very specifically as 8 bits, to reflect the common use of "byte" as a unit of information wrt computers. bitnymei can be used to define additional units if desired, and has terbri both for number of bits and logarithmic base.
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