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Discussion of "pevna"

Comment #1: Syntax question
Wuzzy (Sun May 4 16:15:07 2014)

x3+1, 2

Comment #2: Re: Syntax question
Wuzzy (Sun May 4 16:15:44 2014)

The question: What does that strange syntax in the above post mean? I’ve
never seen it before here.

Comment #3: Lojban got an issue with specifying predicate structures
gleki (Sun May 4 16:28:10 2014)

Wuzzy wrote:
> The question: What does that strange syntax in the above post mean?
I’ve
> never seen it before here.

This definition was taken from gua\spi.

x3+1,2 means that x3 place contains references (ce'u) to x1 and x2.

This also happens in pure Lojban words like with zmadu3 which has ce'u
that refers equally to x1 and x2.

Unfortunately, Lojban doesn't specify:
1. sumti interactions (like in this case)
2. sumti types (not every place has clear specification of whether it can
take a nu, du'u, object-type sumti or several of them, thus being
polymorphic)

This led and continues to lead to sumti raisings, inability to understand
different places.

I'm going to fix that in Simple English definitions at the same time
dealing with the third issue:

3. many definitions of brivla are not ready for their memorization, they
have many superfluous details that could safely go to "notes" (i.e.
"comments") field.

Comment #4: Re: Lojban got an issue with specifying predicate structures
Wuzzy (Sun May 4 18:13:46 2014)

Thanks, now I understand.
You are talking about place names, but what has that to do with Lojban
itself?

Place naming is just a convention here. Yeah, admittedly it is messy. But
I don’t consider these place naming conventions (i.e. “x1”,
“x2”) part of Lojban itself. So it’s not a problem with Lojban,
it’s a problem with the conventions.

On the other hand, when these conventions are applied to a definition in
Lojban, it gets even weirder, so that’s another problem.

Maybe these place naming conventions should be completely rethought.

A cool (partly) solution would be that jbovlaste stores information like
that seperately.

Comment #5: Re: Lojban got an issue with specifying predicate structures
gleki (Mon May 5 06:29:54 2014)

Wuzzy wrote:
> Thanks, now I understand.
> You are talking about place names, but what has that to do with Lojban
> itself?
>
> Place naming is just a convention here. Yeah, admittedly it is messy.
But
> I don’t consider these place naming conventions (i.e. “x1”,
> “x2”) part of Lojban itself. So it’s not a problem with Lojban,
> it’s a problem with the conventions.
>
> On the other hand, when these conventions are applied to a definition in
> Lojban, it gets even weirder, so that’s another problem.
>
> Maybe these place naming conventions should be completely rethought.
>
> A cool (partly) solution would be that jbovlaste stores information like
> that seperately.


Even if x1, x2, x3 is a convention this convention is unable to reflect
interactions of places of the same predicate.

Even if this is not the problem of Lojban it means currently Lojban is
hugely underdocumented in its lexicon.

Not that there is not solution to it. I'm working on a new gismte (but
it'll be ke'u in Simple English direction).

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