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Discussion of "konjaku"

Comment #1: principle: lujvo for name of species rather than fu'ivla?
Sebastian Frjds (Fri Aug 12 18:53:20 2011)

I have erased the word brandy from the swedish definition of konjaku as a
first step.

But I still think that konjaku is a phonemic equivalent to english/french
Cognac (beverage/city) and swedish Konjak (beverage) (but obviously some
of you disagree, so that's not really an argument).
Furthermore I think that cognac (beverage) is a more common word than
konjac, or? (by the way the word for konjac in swedish is munkhätta
(according to sv.wikipedia), which litterally means monk's hood).

Another way of saying konjaku would be to make it a lojban lujvo from the
following etymological elements (of the latin word Amorphophallus konjac):

amorphous Look up amorphous at Dictionary.com
"shapeless," 1731, from Mod.L. amorphus, from Gk. amorphos "without form,
shapeless, deformed," from a- "without" + morphe "form" (see Morpheus).
Related: Amorphousness.

phallus Look up phallus at Dictionary.com
1610s, "an image of the penis," from L. phallus, from Gk. phallos "penis,"
also "carving or image of an erect penis (symbolizing the generative power
in nature) used in the cult of Dionysus," from PIE *bhel-no-, from base
*bhel- (2) "to inflate, swell" (cf. O.N. boli "bull," O.E. bulluc "little
bull," and possibly Gk. phalle "whale;" see bole). Used of the penis
itself (often in symbolic context) from 1924, originally in jargon of
psychoanalysis.

And ooops... konjac itself in the latin name seems here to be either a
korean or japanese word, so I don't know the etymology of that word.

Anyway, why not make a lujvo of Amorphophallus (x1 pertains/belongs to
genus Amorphophallus of species x2 [default is Amorphophallus konjac])?

If you need to be more specific you still have to translate konjac (maybe
from it's korean/japanese meaning), but I think this is the way how to do
things.

Generally I would prefer to use pure lojbanic words as much as possible
when referring to species (translating the latin words would do in most
cases).

Cognac (beverage) on the other hand is a culturally marked word, and
therefore should deliberately remain as such in lojban, I think.

Comment #2: Re: principle: lujvo for name of species rather than fu'ivla?
okaujunpen (Tue Aug 16 10:50:27 2011)

jongausib wrote:
> Furthermore I think that cognac (beverage) is a more common word than
> konjac, or? (by the way the word for konjac in swedish is munkhätta
> (according to sv.wikipedia), which litterally means monk's hood).

(Isn't munkhätta the swedish word for Arum, a genus in the Arum family
(Araceae), while knölkalla is the word for Amorphophallus, a genus in the
Arum family (Araceae)?)

In Japan "konjac" (plant/ food) is a word as common as "cognac"
(beverage).

> And ooops... konjac itself in the latin name seems here to be either a
> korean or japanese word, so I don't know the etymology of that word.

I believe that the word comes from Chinese.

> Cognac (beverage) on the other hand is a culturally marked word, and
> therefore should deliberately remain as such in lojban, I think.

"Without-form-penis-plant" sounds to me culturally marked, too.

Comment #3: Re: principle: lujvo for name of species rather than fu'ivla?
Sebastian Frjds (Tue Aug 16 19:39:44 2011)

junpen wrote:
> jongausib wrote:
> > Furthermore I think that cognac (beverage) is a more common word than
> > konjac, or? (by the way the word for konjac in swedish is munkhätta
> > (according to sv.wikipedia), which litterally means monk's hood).
>
> (Isn't munkhätta the swedish word for Arum, a genus in the Arum family
> (Araceae), while knölkalla is the word for Amorphophallus, a genus in
the
> Arum family (Araceae)?)
>
> In Japan "konjac" (plant/ food) is a word as common as "cognac"
> (beverage).
>
> > And ooops... konjac itself in the latin name seems here to be either a
> > korean or japanese word, so I don't know the etymology of that word.
>
> I believe that the word comes from Chinese.
>
> > Cognac (beverage) on the other hand is a culturally marked word, and
> > therefore should deliberately remain as such in lojban, I think.
>
> "Without-form-penis-plant" sounds to me culturally marked, too.

endless discussion;) well, latin may be culturally marked too, but that's
the international biological standard for name of species (lojbanized
latin names would still be recognized as part of the taxonomy). But in the
case with konjaku (there the latin name has borrowed from chinese), so
couldn't we just translate the chinese word? I think the more lojbanized
words the better, and so we can reserve fu'ivla for words like samurai,
ninja, sushi, nyckelharpa, dalahäst, halloumi, cognac and other words
which would loose their cultural meaning if you translate them. In a
dispute like this, who will decide which should be hold for the right
definition, anyway?

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