This word is weird in that it has time and place of birth terbri. Why are
other important life events (loss of virginity, marriage, divorce, death,
etc.) not given gismu which are equipped similarly? There maybe should be a
generic word for life event, too ("x1 experienced major life event x2 at
time x3 in location x4"). Sure, this one is the only one that is guaranteed
to anyone with whom one interacts (except death and taxes, in our current
world) and someone actually does it (id est: births) to the subject,
whereas some of the other ones are more passive, but it is still weird.

Or we can introduce a new word which just means "x1 is born to x2".

mivbi'o, which would likely be modelled on mrobi'o, must be factored
into all of these considerations too.

Comment #2: Re: Asymmetry

gleki (Fri Aug 12 06:49:37 2016)

krtisfranks wrote: > This word is weird in that it has time and place of birth terbri. Why are > other important life events (loss of virginity, marriage, divorce, death, > etc.) not given gismu which are equipped similarly? There maybe should be a > generic word for life event, too ("x1 experienced major life event x2 at > time x3 in location x4"). Sure, this one is the only one that is guaranteed > to anyone with whom one interacts (except death and taxes, in our current > world) and someone actually does it (id est: births) to the subject, > whereas some of the other ones are more passive, but it is still weird. > > Or we can introduce a new word which just means "x1 is born to x2". > > mivbi'o, which would likely be modelled on mrobi'o, must be factored > into all of these considerations too. or just co'a jmive if you don't need jbena2

Comment #3: Re: Asymmetry Lorenzo Von Matterhorn (Sat Aug 13 11:59:32 2016) gleki wrote: > or just co'a jmive if you don't need jbena2 lo cifnu pu lo nu ri jbena cu jmive ne'i lo gutra Just remove jbena3 and jbena4. Comment #5: Re: Asymmetry gleki (Sat Aug 13 12:09:06 2016) selpahi wrote: > gleki wrote: > > or just co'a jmive if you don't need jbena2 > > lo cifnu pu lo nu ri jbena cu jmive ne'i lo gutra i na'i pe'i i lo za'e cifnu pu lo nu ri jbena na pe'i cifnu gi'e ja'a pe'i pagbu lo se tarbi Comment #6: Re: Asymmetry gleki (Sat Aug 13 12:09:40 2016) gleki wrote: > selpahi wrote: > > gleki wrote: > > > or just co'a jmive if you don't need jbena2 > > > > lo cifnu pu lo nu ri jbena cu jmive ne'i lo gutra > > i na'i pe'i i lo za'e cifnu pu lo nu ri jbena na pe'i cifnu gi'e ja'a pe'i > pagbu lo se tarbi i sei mi pu co'u morji se'u coi lo bergu

Comment #7: Re: Asymmetry

gleki (Sun Jan 15 16:47:03 2017)

krtisfranks wrote: > This word is weird in that it has time and place of birth terbri. Why are > other important life events (loss of virginity, marriage, divorce, death, > etc.) not given gismu which are equipped similarly? There maybe should be a > generic word for life event, too ("x1 experienced major life event x2 at > time x3 in location x4"). Sure, this one is the only one that is guaranteed > to anyone with whom one interacts (except death and taxes, in our current > world) and someone actually does it (id est: births) to the subject, > whereas some of the other ones are more passive, but it is still weird. > > Or we can introduce a new word which just means "x1 is born to x2". > > mivbi'o, which would likely be modelled on mrobi'o, must be factored > into all of these considerations too. oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se rorci [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born while stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out of your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary.

Comment #8: Re: Asymmetry Curtis W Franks (Mon Jan 16 23:51:43 2017) gleki wrote: > krtisfranks wrote: > > This word is weird in that it has time and place of birth terbri. Why are > > > other important life events (loss of virginity, marriage, divorce, death, > > > etc.) not given gismu which are equipped similarly? There maybe should be > a > > generic word for life event, too ("x1 experienced major life event x2 at > > time x3 in location x4"). Sure, this one is the only one that is > guaranteed > > to anyone with whom one interacts (except death and taxes, in our current > > > world) and someone actually does it (id est: births) to the subject, > > whereas some of the other ones are more passive, but it is still weird. > > > > Or we can introduce a new word which just means "x1 is born to x2". > > > > mivbi'o, which would likely be modelled on mrobi'o, must be factored > > into all of these considerations too. > > > > oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid > =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se rorci > [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be > important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being > "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born while > stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out of > your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary. That is a good point. But I would have just said "born via means x_i amd by standard x_j". Comment #9: Re: Asymmetry gleki (Sat Jan 21 10:58:58 2017) krtisfranks wrote: > gleki wrote: > > oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to > > > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid > > =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se rorci > > > [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be > > important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being > > "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born while > > stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out of > > your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary. > > That is a good point. But I would have just said "born via means x_i amd by > standard x_j". So jbena then becomes superfluous since we have co'a panzi or rorci (the latter for the case ">1 sexes" plus a special viewpoint). For stages of biodevelopment there needs to be a new brivla completing makcu with means of getting into the stage. Another brivla might be needed to shows the circle of life (e.g. imago => egg => larva => imago) like x1 enters its new stage of development (e.g. by laying eggs) by procreating your-new-stage/offspring x2 (e.g. eggs of turning yourself into a larva). This of course immediately leads to the bear-goo problem of "what is individuum?" but that can be expressed via additional means like ("no change of individuality from egg to larva" / "change of individuality from imago to egg")

some animals are born in the form of egg, in viviparous it's not. what is
jbena for each of these cases? what is jbena for plants (seeds)? is
metamorphosis a nu jbena (egg => larva, larva => chrysalis, chrysalis
=> imago)?

is binary fission a nunjbena process? or such animals are immortal and not
producing offspring?

how are viruses "born"?