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Discussion of "cei'u"

Comment #1: Versus lu'a
Curtis W Franks (Sat Jul 30 09:53:50 2016)

I think of "lu'a" as basically converting a mass or a team into a
collection of individuals, at least one of which is meant. "cei'u" implies
no collective identity or unity or properties, and the individuals may not
even be participating or associated with one another; moreover, they need
not be discrete. For example: in order to discuss a number in an interval,
I would not use "lu'a" but instead "cei'u"; meanwhile, in order to discuss
a dog that bit me amongst a gang/pack of dogs that attacked me, I would not
use "cei'u" but instead "lu'a" (although such a dog is a member of the set
of all dogs that have ever attacked me - it is just the case that each of
those dogs could have done it individually and separately from the rest in
some conceptions). Another example: A Senator is a member of Congress,
specifically some incarnation of the body, and "lu'a" could describe them;
1 is a member of the set of integers, but it really does not 'work' with
the rest, so "cei'u" would describe it. It may be the case that often
"lu'a" is a subtype of "cei'u", but I am not sure that that is always the
case. I think that it might be possible to use "lu'a" to mean a part (in
the mathematical sense) or a part (in the more colloquial sense), including
for example a gear in a machine, and I am not sure that these usages allow
for "cei'u" to subsume them; this bit, though, is very iffy to me right
now. But really, I think that the difference is analogous to that between
"loi" (like "lu'a") and "lo'i" (like "cei'u"); or between
"girzu"/"gunma"(/possibly "selpau") (the former) and
"cletu"/"selcmi"(/sorta "klesi") (the latter).

There is a debate as to whether intervals refer to actual sets (intervals)
or just an element thereof. For example, can zvati2 be an geographical
interval in order to mean a point along the line? I would argue that the
answer is strongly "no" (the only possible interpretation, if it is allowed
at all - and I am not sure that it should be, but I want to avoid
distributing over individual points? - is that zvati1 is some extended body
which spans all of the points of the interval in location). But it would be
really nice to be able to specify an interval and mean an element thereof -
and not only in this situation, although definitely it too. The extended
version "lo cmima be" works but is annoying and people are unlikely to put
in the effort (especially if they are using it a lot in quick succession,
which happens in math), if they remember the distinction at all.

? In other words, I do not want to say that it is a point particle located
separately (possibly in copies or superpositions) at every point along the
intervals individually.

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