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Discussion of "ju'anai"
[parent] [root]
Comment #2: Re: Note
gleki (Sun Jul 19 18:37:13 2015)

spheniscine wrote:
> Yes, this is duplicated from ju'acu'i... for two reasons: 1. It's
> shorter, and 2. It's becoming somewhat popular to interpret ju'onai as
> "uncertainty" rather than "impossibility"; after all, if one wishes to
say
> "No way that could happen", they could just use ju'o naku la'edi'u
fasnu
.
> Similarly, ju'anai can probably just be interpreted as "I do not
assert",
> while "unassertion" can be ju'a naku. Besides, there's always ne'e...

I'd rather reserve ju'a and ju'anai for the meanings specified by
Ithkuil Essence, i.e. what is usually expressed in relative clauses, inner
bridi.

"allegedly" is iacu'i, "supposedly" is la'acu'i,da'i or even just
ju'ocu'i depending on what you mean, "without asserting" is ca'enai.

Comment #3: Re: Note
Jonathan (Sun Jul 19 18:56:11 2015)

I don't think ca'e is good here. You also suggested it for kai'a; but
ca'e is more like "it is true because I say so". It's related to
jetrinsku, and I also defined ca'engau based on that doctrine.

Comment #4: Re: Note
Jonathan (Sun Jul 19 19:02:42 2015)

iacu'i is quite close but not a complete replacement. Basically my
intention for ju'acu'i / ju'anai is reflected in the "scare quotes" in
"That "man" is really a woman" - essentially, this is an explicit marker
for "non-veridicality", in a post-xorlo world where lo/le no longer is
distinguished that way.

Comment #5: Re: Note
Jonathan (Sun Jul 19 19:09:00 2015)

Unfortunately I don't know Ithkuil, so you're going to have to explain that
to me... or perhaps make another cmavo to reflect that meaning.

Comment #7: Re: Note
gleki (Mon Jul 20 06:00:27 2015)

spheniscine wrote:
> Unfortunately I don't know Ithkuil, so you're going to have to explain
that
> to me... or perhaps make another cmavo to reflect that meaning.


Just compare mi xusra lo du'u do citka and mi xusra lo du'u go'o i do
citka

Comment #8: Re: Note
Jonathan (Mon Jul 20 06:16:57 2015)

So you want ju'anai for mi na xusra or mi to'e xusra ?

Comment #9: Re: Note
gleki (Mon Jul 20 07:25:52 2015)

spheniscine wrote:
> So you want ju'anai for mi na xusra or mi to'e xusra ?

ju'a is not about xusra-ing anything. It's about wrapping clauses into
sumti.

Comment #10: Re: Note
Jonathan (Mon Jul 20 07:47:41 2015)

That seems like a complete redefinition of ju'a to me...

Comment #11: Re: Note
gleki (Mon Jul 20 07:52:31 2015)

spheniscine wrote:
> That seems like a complete redefinition of ju'a to me...

Main level clause must have something like ju'a implied.

Comment #12: Re: Note
Jonathan (Tue Jul 21 04:44:21 2015)

I'm still not sure what you're talking about. If ju'a isn't defined in
terms of xusra, what is it defined as? This even conflicts with xorxes'
definition for ju'a.

Comment #6: Re: Note
Jonathan (Sun Jul 19 19:12:04 2015)

I also do have a Lojban definition for ju'acu'i:

sinxa lo du'u le cusku cu skicu gi'eku'i na xusra lo du'u le ve skicu cu
drani ja mapti

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