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Discussion of "pinxydja"

Comment #1: Not shortest form.
Wuzzy (Thu Jul 16 08:05:04 2015)

This word is not in the shortest form, see pixydja.

Comment #2: Re: Not shortest form.
Lorenzo Von Matterhorn (Thu Jul 16 11:27:19 2015)

Wuzzy wrote:
> This word is not in the shortest form, see pixydja.

I know that. It was a conscious decision.

Comment #4: Re: Not shortest form.
Curtis W Franks (Thu Jul 16 22:01:36 2015)

selpahi wrote:
> Wuzzy wrote:
> > This word is not in the shortest form, see pixydja.
>
> I know that. It was a conscious decision.


Out of curiosity, could you explain the motivation for this choice?

Comment #5: Re: Not shortest form.
Jonathan (Fri Jul 17 07:57:28 2015)

As selpa'i said below (not directed to you, but explains the motivation):

"Did you ever consider that someone might prefer the
sound or form of a non-lowest scoring lujvo? Are you aware of the fact that
a lot of people have started to use longer forms in conjunction with
regular suffixes, because it requires both the speaker and the listener to
learn fewer rafsi?"

Comment #3: Re: Not shortest form.
Lorenzo Von Matterhorn (Thu Jul 16 11:52:00 2015)

Wuzzy wrote:
> This word is not in the shortest form, see pixydja.

Seriously, why do you have to downvote and attack everything. Let people
define alternate forms. Did you ever consider that someone might prefer the
sound or form of a non-lowest scoring lujvo? Are you aware of the fact that
a lot of people have started to use longer forms in conjunction with
regular suffixes, because it requires both the speaker and the listener to
learn fewer rafsi? No, you just downvote. Now pinxydja won't appear on
vlasisku, great. Beginners won't find it there after seeing it used
elsewhere.

Comment #6: Re: Not shortest form.
Wuzzy (Fri Jul 17 08:06:46 2015)

My reason is written in my latest comment here:
https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/184

I just repeat what I wrote below the line:

--------

lagleki, you do not understand. People are free to choose any word form
they like.
Because, according to CLL, all forms a lujvo are equivalent by definition.
So if I define ?tolyli'a?, I also automatically have defined ?to'e zei
cliva? and ?tolycliva? as well.

Therefore, it does not make much sense to include all those word forms,
don't you think? The other word forms are simply implied.

That the dictionary always should use the canonical form is simply to avoid
redundancy.
It would be bad if we had ?tolyli'a?, ?to'e zei cliva? AND ?tolycliva?
floating around. It's simply a technical reason.

That also why there is ?malgli? in the dictionary, although ?malglico? is a
much more common (and 100% equally valid) form of this lujvo.

In fact, this is stated every time you create a word:

If it is a lujvo, make sure you're using the lowest scoring form of the
lujvo. You're not going to get anywhere by using a different form, as the
database is periodically swept for noncanonical form lujvo, and they are
modified to the appropriate canonical form. (Or removed, and all related
data pointed towards the canonical version, if it already exists.)

I wonder if this database cleanup has ever been actually done before.

It would be even better if Jbovlaste could check the lujvo score right from
the beginning.

--------


PS: People not being able to find alternate lujvo forms is actually a
software problem that needs to be fixed in the software. The software
really should be able to show all equivalent lujvo forms at once. That
could all be done automatically. Having multiple entries for basically the
same lujvo is bad. :-(

Currently, jbovlaste will accept data for 70 languages.
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