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Discussion of "cmagnitude"

Comment #1: carmi?
gleki (Sat Jul 11 05:54:26 2015)

carmi isn't necessarily about brightness. When you work hard it's also
carmi. carmi is too vague.

I guess most important meanings of "magnitude" are:
1. size/degree (cisni? gradu?), grandeco
2. vector magnitude (do we have a prefix for vector? or just for math?)
3. brightness
4. Richter scale magnitude, ni nejni?
5. order of magnitude, grandoordo

I think all of them can be nailed down to gradu which of course isn't a
solution.

Maybe, magni- should become a new pseudo-prefix, e.g.
1. gradu
2. magninorma
3. magnigusni
4. magninejni
5. magnitenfo

Sorry, those roots aren't my final proposals, just a thought.

Comment #2: Re: carmi?
Curtis W Franks (Sat Jul 11 06:51:30 2015)

gleki wrote:
> carmi isn't necessarily about brightness. When you work hard it's also
> carmi. carmi is too vague.
>

I agree and was trying to avoid that problem with the longer word. (In
fact, carmi is almost too vague to be useful, in my opinion. Almost.)
I decided that I wanted a shorter word, and formulated this one. The
etymological mnemonic is not really integral to the definition (in the same
way that it would be for a lujvo), it is just a potentially helpful way to
remember. I wanted a consonant cluster, and it worked. If you do not like
it, just try to forget that it has any motivation. :P


> I guess most important meanings of "magnitude" are:
> 1. size/degree (cisni? gradu?), grandeco

> 2. vector magnitude (do we have a prefix for vector? or just for math?)

One of these days, once I find a definition that I finally like, I will
propose the word vektori for vectors (I have been working on it, one and
off, for approximately a year and a half now). We could then use "vektorn"
as a prefix, or something of the like.
I have proposed cu'ai for vector magnitude as a mekso operator cmavo.


> 3. brightness
> 4. Richter scale magnitude, ni nejni?

That falls into the category of "logarithmic measures" which seems to be
the theme of the day. We might as well just make another fu'ivla for it.

> 5. order of magnitude, grandoordo
>

I have thought about this meaning. I am not sure how best to implement it.
For a start, if we choose a decimal order of magnitude, which is half of an
order of magnitude: 5, log(10)?
Second, the place structure is hard to isolate. People use the English
phrase "order of magnitude" in subtly different ways. I am sure that with a
little thought, we can come up with a good definition, but I have not yet
gotten around to it.

> I think all of them can be nailed down to gradu which of course isn't a

> solution.
>
> Maybe, magni- should become a new pseudo-prefix, e.g.
> 1. gradu
> 2. magninorma
> 3. magnigusni
> 4. magninejni
> 5. magnitenfo
>
> Sorry, those roots aren't my final proposals, just a thought.

That is not a bad suggestion. The idea of a magnitude is general enough
that such usage would be logical warranted (rather than an artifact of
cultural borrowing), I think.
But I also would not be opposed to splitting them. Norms can get a word
such as "norma", order of magnitude can get a word (which has tons of
options, but as an example, just take "ordo"), the Richter scale probably
does deserve its own word like "ri'iktre", and then we can give brightness
to something like this word. None of them has any apparent connection with
any other.

Comment #3: Re: carmi?
gleki (Sat Jul 11 07:45:32 2015)

krtisfranks wrote:
> the Richter scale probably does deserve its own word like "ri'iktre"

rikteritre if -tre is obligatory.

Comment #5: Re: carmi?
Curtis W Franks (Sat Jul 11 18:40:04 2015)

gleki wrote:
> krtisfranks wrote:
> > the Richter scale probably does deserve its own word like "ri'iktre"
>
> rikteritre if -tre is obligatory.


The "tre" is from the name, not a rafsi, if that is what you are thinking.
It is obligatory only in the sense of preserving the etymology/word.

Comment #6: Re: carmi?
gleki (Sat Jul 11 19:24:00 2015)

krtisfranks wrote:
> gleki wrote:
> > krtisfranks wrote:
> > > the Richter scale probably does deserve its own word like "ri'iktre"
> >
> > rikteritre if -tre is obligatory.
>
>
> The "tre" is from the name, not a rafsi, if that is what you are
thinking.
> It is obligatory only in the sense of preserving the etymology/word.

then just rikteri with even better mnemonic.

Comment #4: Re: carmi?
gleki (Sat Jul 11 07:50:53 2015)

krtisfranks wrote:
> The etymological mnemonic is not really integral to the definition (in
the same way that it would be for a lujvo), it is just a potentially
helpful way to remember.

The problem is exactly with the lack of mnemonic since one cannot easily
understand which meaning of "magnitude" is used here. Is c- for cmaci?
carmi? cnano (norm, vector magnitude)?

Comment #7: OT: Order of magnitude <- Re: carmi?
Curtis W Franks (Sun Jul 12 06:16:35 2015)

gleki wrote:

Comment #8: OT: Order of magnitude
Curtis W Franks (Sun Jul 12 06:20:17 2015)

For some reason my previous comment does not appear until I try to reply to
it. So, I am going to attempt to post it again; hopefully, it works this
time.

gleki wrote:
> carmi isn't necessarily about brightness. When you work hard it's also
> carmi. carmi is too vague.
>
> I guess most important meanings of "magnitude" are:
> 1. size/degree (cisni? gradu?), grandeco
> 2. vector magnitude (do we have a prefix for vector? or just for math?)
> 3. brightness
> 4. Richter scale magnitude, ni nejni?
> 5. order of magnitude, grandoordo
>
> I think all of them can be nailed down to gradu which of course isn't a

> solution.
>
> Maybe, magni- should become a new pseudo-prefix, e.g.
> 1. gradu
> 2. magninorma
> 3. magnigusni
> 4. magninejni
> 5. magnitenfo
>
> Sorry, those roots aren't my final proposals, just a thought.

This is a little off-topic, but what do you think about this definition for
the word for "order of magnitude":

Definition: x_1 (pure number) has order of magnitude x_2 for base x_3
(contextless default: 2, e, or ten) on scale/in system x_4 (si'o;
contextless default: logarithmic scale, of base x_3, with half of an order
of magnitude representing (x_3)^(1/2)).

Notes: If x1 is for a measured value with dimension, express it by the
(typically) second terbri of the unit and fill the first terbri thereof
using be; for example, x1 can be "le se mitre be lo nilcla be zo'e"; a
measured thing (such as the referent of "le mitre") cannot have order of
magnitude, but its measurement (le se mitre) can. Specify use of sigfigs
for x2 if necessary; typically, only an integer will be supplied (and it is
very commonly meant to be interpreted using sigfigs), but any real number
may be supplied to x2.

Comment #9: Re: OT: Order of magnitude
gleki (Sun Jul 12 07:01:09 2015)

krtisfranks wrote:
> For some reason my previous comment does not appear until I try to reply
to
> it. So, I am going to attempt to post it again; hopefully, it works this
> time.
>
> gleki wrote:
> > carmi isn't necessarily about brightness. When you work hard it's also
> > carmi. carmi is too vague.
> >
> > I guess most important meanings of "magnitude" are:
> > 1. size/degree (cisni? gradu?), grandeco
> > 2. vector magnitude (do we have a prefix for vector? or just for math?)
> > 3. brightness
> > 4. Richter scale magnitude, ni nejni?
> > 5. order of magnitude, grandoordo
> >
> > I think all of them can be nailed down to gradu which of course isn't
a
>
> > solution.
> >
> > Maybe, magni- should become a new pseudo-prefix, e.g.
> > 1. gradu
> > 2. magninorma
> > 3. magnigusni
> > 4. magninejni
> > 5. magnitenfo
> >
> > Sorry, those roots aren't my final proposals, just a thought.
>
> This is a little off-topic, but what do you think about this definition
for
> the word for "order of magnitude":
>
> Definition: x_1 (pure number) has order of magnitude x_2 for base x_3
> (contextless default: 2, e, or ten) on scale/in system x_4 (si'o;
> contextless default: logarithmic scale, of base x_3, with half of an
order
> of magnitude representing (x_3)^(1/2)).
>
> Notes: If x1 is for a measured value with dimension, express it by the
> (typically) second terbri of the unit and fill the first terbri thereof
> using be; for example, x1 can be "le se mitre be lo nilcla be zo'e"; a
> measured thing (such as the referent of "le mitre") cannot have order of
> magnitude, but its measurement (le se mitre) can. Specify use of sigfigs
> for x2 if necessary; typically, only an integer will be supplied (and it
is
> very commonly meant to be interpreted using sigfigs), but any real number

> may be supplied to x2.


please fill in all 4 sumti with something other than zo'e or "la ... [ku]"

Comment #10: Re: OT: Order of magnitude
Curtis W Franks (Sun Jul 12 08:25:01 2015)

gleki wrote:
> krtisfranks wrote:
> > For some reason my previous comment does not appear until I try to
reply
> to
> > it. So, I am going to attempt to post it again; hopefully, it works
this
> > time.
> >
> > gleki wrote:
> > > carmi isn't necessarily about brightness. When you work hard it's
also
> > > carmi. carmi is too vague.
> > >
> > > I guess most important meanings of "magnitude" are:
> > > 1. size/degree (cisni? gradu?), grandeco
> > > 2. vector magnitude (do we have a prefix for vector? or just for
math?)
> > > 3. brightness
> > > 4. Richter scale magnitude, ni nejni?
> > > 5. order of magnitude, grandoordo
> > >
> > > I think all of them can be nailed down to gradu which of course
isn't
> a
> >
> > > solution.
> > >
> > > Maybe, magni- should become a new pseudo-prefix, e.g.
> > > 1. gradu
> > > 2. magninorma
> > > 3. magnigusni
> > > 4. magninejni
> > > 5. magnitenfo
> > >
> > > Sorry, those roots aren't my final proposals, just a thought.
> >
> > This is a little off-topic, but what do you think about this definition

> for
> > the word for "order of magnitude":
> >
> > Definition: x_1 (pure number) has order of magnitude x_2 for base x_3
> > (contextless default: 2, e, or ten) on scale/in system x_4 (si'o;
> > contextless default: logarithmic scale, of base x_3, with half of an
> order
> > of magnitude representing (x_3)^(1/2)).
> >
> > Notes: If x1 is for a measured value with dimension, express it by the
> > (typically) second terbri of the unit and fill the first terbri thereof

> > using be; for example, x1 can be "le se mitre be lo nilcla be zo'e";
a
> > measured thing (such as the referent of "le mitre") cannot have order
of
> > magnitude, but its measurement (le se mitre) can. Specify use of
sigfigs
> > for x2 if necessary; typically, only an integer will be supplied (and
it
> is
> > very commonly meant to be interpreted using sigfigs), but any real
number
>
> > may be supplied to x2.
>
>
> please fill in all 4 sumti with something other than zo'e or "la ...
[ku]"

le se mitre be le nilcla be la banli bliku po la .gizas. bei lo sraji cu
magnitenfo li su'ai re li dau lo si'o dugri ciste kei be mi
"The number of meters for measuring the length of the Great Pyramid of Giza
in the vertical direction is of the order of magnitude 2 (sigfigs) in
decimal base, using an idea of a logarithmic system, thought of by me";
more approximately: "The Great Pyramid of Giza is approximately one hundred
meters high, where I used a logarithmic scale for figuring that out".
I am iffiest about my submission to the fourth terbri there.

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