jbovlaste
a lojban dictionary editing system
User:
Pass:

Home
Get A Printable Dictionary
Search Best Words
Recent Changes
How You Can Help
valsi - All
valsi - Preferred Only
natlang - All
natlang - Preferred Only
Languages
XML Export
user Listing
Report Bugs
Utilities
Status
Help
Admin Request
Create Account
Discussion of "i'au"

Comment #1: Superfluous?
Curtis W Franks (Tue May 12 23:19:45 2015)

This can be achieved by placing UI immediately after .i or vau, yes?

Comment #2: Re: Superfluous?
Jonathan (Wed May 13 01:40:40 2015)

krtisfranks wrote:
> This can be achieved by placing UI immediately after .i or vau, yes?
vau isn't sufficient, especially not in the example sentence I gave in
the notes. Note that there is more than one bridi-tail left open (three, in
fact), thus to actually attach to the entire sentence you require (do sidju
mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu vau vau vau ui), which just sounds wrong.

My motivation for inventing i'au is to avoid any necessary consideration
for grammatical context or remaining famyma'o when attaching afterthought
attitudinals (i'au a'inai). It could even work where vau won't be
grammatical, e.g. (coi lo tavla pe la .lojban. i'au ui), in which case you
won't have to think (Hm, no I can't use vau because this sentence doesn't
have a bridi. So what famyma'o do I need to use... oh yeah, do'u) (oi)

i is often used as a solution but isn't ideal, as the connection is less
straightforward, and in order to avoid the UI-cmavo applying to the next
sentence you then need another i. This becomes more obvious for UI-cmavo
that imply more than just emotion, substantially changing the meaning of
whatever it is attached to, like pe'a, xo'o or xu. For example:

(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu i'au xu) = (xu do sidju mi lo nu mi
zenba lo ni ricfu) "Is it true that you helped me become richer?" / "Did
you help me become richer?" - parallels certain languages like Chinese
where "true/false" is added as an afterthought.

Compare the following alternatives (note: pathological translations):

(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu xu) "You helped me increase in
something-ness, but is that "rich"?"

(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu vau xu) "You helped me increase in
something, but is that "richness"?"

(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu .i xu [co'e]) "You helped me
become rich. (Something) true or false?" - technically makes the first
sentence a statement rather a question, leaves the true/false question up
to context, and if you want to add another sentence after that another .i
must be used.

Comment #3: Re: Superfluous?
Jonathan (Wed May 13 02:00:40 2015)

Sorry, the co'e in the last example is meant to be in brackets, to show
that it is implied.

Comment #4: Re: Superfluous?
Jonathan (Wed May 13 05:04:18 2015)

I've made some corrections to my example Lojban texts and their
interpretations here:
http://mw.lojban.org/papri/zipcpi:_zo_i%27au_ki%27a%3F_FAQ_about_the_new_cm
avo,_i%27au

Comment #5: Reconsidering sub-selma'o
Jonathan (Wed May 13 07:55:35 2015)

I just looked up how to use bu'o and it doesn't work like i'au at all.
I don't know if i'au would require a new one.

Comment #6: Re: Reconsidering sub-selma'o
Jonathan (Wed May 13 11:13:08 2015)

Provisionally moved it to UI6. i'au really defies classification, but what
is currently in UI6 seems to as well, so perhaps it has a home there.

Comment #7: Re: Reconsidering sub-selma'o
Jonathan (Wed May 13 12:21:50 2015)

Maybe it could share a sub-selma'o with two more UI-cmavo for attitudinal
scope modification; essentially specialized quotation marks, to explicitly
arbitrarily define the scope of the UI-cmavo. I've not decided what words
to allocate to it yet; they shall henceforth be provisionally represented
by BAS (begin attitudinal scope) and EAS (end attitudinal scope).

(A plain reading of bu'o's definition may appear to serve this purpose,
hence my initial categorization of i'au in UI7, but its use in the CLL
doesn't corroborate this; rather it means "This is how I'm starting to feel
/ continuing to feel / not feeling anymore".)

Unlike i'au, I don't expect BAS/EAS to be used very often, as it is often
unnatural to specify one's emotions so explicitly and with forethought.
However it could be useful for invocations, manifestos, lectures, and
monologues, where one may craft a long speech of the form "I hope for all
these things: (BAS [a'o]) XXX, YYY, ZZZ. (EAS)".

Additionally, since UI-cmavo aren't only used for emotions, it could also
potentially be used for things like asking a complex question of the type
"is all the following true?" using (BAS [xu] XXX YYY ZZZ EAS).

To conserve cmavo space though, perhaps like bu'o, EAS can simply be BAS +
nai.

Comment #8: Re: Reconsidering sub-selma'o
Jonathan (Wed May 13 12:38:34 2015)

OK I've allocated bau'o to BAS, and defined bau'onai as EAS.

Currently, jbovlaste will accept data for 70 languages.
You are not logged in.

  recent changes jbovlaste main
This is jbovlaste, the lojban dictionary system.
The main code was last changed on Wed 07 Oct 2020 05:54:55 PM PDT.
All content is public domain. By submitting content, you agree to place it in the public domain to the fullest extent allowed by local law.
jbovlaste is an official project of the logical language group, and is now headed by Robin Lee Powell.
E-mail him if you have any questions.
care to log in?