- Home
- Get A Printable Dictionary
- Search Best Words
- Recent Changes
- How You Can Help
- valsi - All
- valsi - Preferred Only
- natlang - All
- natlang - Preferred Only
- Languages
- XML Export
- user Listing
- Report Bugs
- Utilities
- Status
- Help
- Admin Request
- Create Account
|
Discussion of "i'au"
Comment #1:
Superfluous?
|
Curtis W Franks (Tue May 12 23:19:45 2015)
|
This can be achieved by placing UI immediately after .i or vau, yes?
|
-
Comment #2:
Re: Superfluous?
|
Jonathan (Wed May 13 01:40:40 2015)
|
krtisfranks wrote: > This can be achieved by placing UI immediately after .i or vau, yes? vau isn't sufficient, especially not in the example sentence I gave in the notes. Note that there is more than one bridi-tail left open (three, in fact), thus to actually attach to the entire sentence you require (do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu vau vau vau ui), which just sounds wrong.
My motivation for inventing i'au is to avoid any necessary consideration for grammatical context or remaining famyma'o when attaching afterthought attitudinals (i'au a'inai). It could even work where vau won't be grammatical, e.g. (coi lo tavla pe la .lojban. i'au ui), in which case you won't have to think (Hm, no I can't use vau because this sentence doesn't have a bridi. So what famyma'o do I need to use... oh yeah, do'u) (oi)
i is often used as a solution but isn't ideal, as the connection is less straightforward, and in order to avoid the UI-cmavo applying to the next sentence you then need another i. This becomes more obvious for UI-cmavo that imply more than just emotion, substantially changing the meaning of whatever it is attached to, like pe'a, xo'o or xu. For example:
(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu i'au xu) = (xu do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu) "Is it true that you helped me become richer?" / "Did you help me become richer?" - parallels certain languages like Chinese where "true/false" is added as an afterthought.
Compare the following alternatives (note: pathological translations):
(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu xu) "You helped me increase in something-ness, but is that "rich"?"
(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu vau xu) "You helped me increase in something, but is that "richness"?"
(do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu .i xu [co'e]) "You helped me become rich. (Something) true or false?" - technically makes the first sentence a statement rather a question, leaves the true/false question up to context, and if you want to add another sentence after that another .i must be used.
|
-
Comment #3:
Re: Superfluous?
|
Jonathan (Wed May 13 02:00:40 2015)
|
Sorry, the co'e in the last example is meant to be in brackets, to show that it is implied.
|
-
|
Comment #4:
Re: Superfluous?
|
Jonathan (Wed May 13 05:04:18 2015)
|
I've made some corrections to my example Lojban texts and their interpretations here: http://mw.lojban.org/papri/zipcpi:_zo_i%27au_ki%27a%3F_FAQ_about_the_new_cm avo,_i%27au
|
-
|
|
|
Comment #5:
Reconsidering sub-selma'o
|
Jonathan (Wed May 13 07:55:35 2015)
|
I just looked up how to use bu'o and it doesn't work like i'au at all. I don't know if i'au would require a new one.
|
-
Comment #6:
Re: Reconsidering sub-selma'o
|
Jonathan (Wed May 13 11:13:08 2015)
|
Provisionally moved it to UI6. i'au really defies classification, but what is currently in UI6 seems to as well, so perhaps it has a home there.
|
-
|
Comment #7:
Re: Reconsidering sub-selma'o
|
Jonathan (Wed May 13 12:21:50 2015)
|
Maybe it could share a sub-selma'o with two more UI-cmavo for attitudinal scope modification; essentially specialized quotation marks, to explicitly arbitrarily define the scope of the UI-cmavo. I've not decided what words to allocate to it yet; they shall henceforth be provisionally represented by BAS (begin attitudinal scope) and EAS (end attitudinal scope).
(A plain reading of bu'o's definition may appear to serve this purpose, hence my initial categorization of i'au in UI7, but its use in the CLL doesn't corroborate this; rather it means "This is how I'm starting to feel / continuing to feel / not feeling anymore".)
Unlike i'au, I don't expect BAS/EAS to be used very often, as it is often unnatural to specify one's emotions so explicitly and with forethought. However it could be useful for invocations, manifestos, lectures, and monologues, where one may craft a long speech of the form "I hope for all these things: (BAS [a'o]) XXX, YYY, ZZZ. (EAS)".
Additionally, since UI-cmavo aren't only used for emotions, it could also potentially be used for things like asking a complex question of the type "is all the following true?" using (BAS [xu] XXX YYY ZZZ EAS).
To conserve cmavo space though, perhaps like bu'o, EAS can simply be BAS + nai.
|
-
|
|
|