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Discussion of "dapma"
Comment #1:
What to do...
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Jonathan (Fri May 29 16:19:27 2015)
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Alternatively we could just create a new gismu that means the opposite. I'm not sure dapma can lose all its negative connotations now; the negative connotations have already been translated into so many languages, it is even in the Lojban definition "the noi mabla" bit.
For the English definition to the counterpart I would write: "x1 blesses/well-wishes x2 with/into fate x3"
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Comment #2:
Re: What to do...
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Curtis W Franks (Fri May 29 16:37:43 2015)
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spheniscine wrote: > Alternatively we could just create a new gismu that means the opposite. I'm > not sure dapma can lose all its negative connotations now; the negative
> connotations have already been translated into so many languages, it is > even in the Lojban definition "the noi mabla" bit. > > For the English definition to the counterpart I would write: > "x1 blesses/well-wishes x2 with/into fate x3"
I do think that a neutral definition is good to have too. Something along the lines of "x1 wills/dictates x2 into fate/outcome/(life-)path x3".
For the positive definition, "well-wishes" seems somewhat weak. Maybe "endows/gifts"? That way, it still sounds positive, but it is guaranteed (which, for a curse, it presumably is expected to be). I would also add "/destiny" right after "fate", in order to connote positively.
But I agree. This definition is inherently negative in the English interpretation and we need more words while specifying this usage more clearly.
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Comment #3:
neutral sense needed
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Vincent Broman nohu la bremenli (Mon Apr 25 23:45:13 2016)
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Even if we could create a gismu for bless, to replace the clumsy to'edapma (ugh), it still would not help express cases where the fate imposed is mixed instead of all good or all bad. I think xagdapma or zandapma versus xladapma or maldapma are good for bless and curse. The general case could be like: x1 imposes or calls on a greater power to impose on x2 fate/destiny x3. Note: since cursing is much common than blessing, that is the default when unspecified by x3 or a compound.
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Comment #4:
Re: neutral sense needed
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gleki (Tue Apr 26 08:44:08 2016)
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vpbroman wrote: > Even if we could create a gismu for bless, to replace the clumsy to'edapma > (ugh), it still would not help express cases where the fate imposed is > mixed instead of all good or all bad. I think xagdapma or zandapma versus
> xladapma or maldapma are good for bless and curse. The general case could
> be like: > x1 imposes or calls on a greater power to impose on x2 fate/destiny x3.
Definition #66163 is something like that.
> Note: since cursing is much common than blessing, that is the default when > unspecified by x3 or a compound.
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