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Discussion of "jbena"
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Comment #7:
Re: Asymmetry
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gleki (Sun Jan 15 16:47:03 2017)
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krtisfranks wrote: > This word is weird in that it has time and place of birth terbri. Why are
> other important life events (loss of virginity, marriage, divorce, death,
> etc.) not given gismu which are equipped similarly? There maybe should be a > generic word for life event, too ("x1 experienced major life event x2 at > time x3 in location x4"). Sure, this one is the only one that is guaranteed > to anyone with whom one interacts (except death and taxes, in our current
> world) and someone actually does it (id est: births) to the subject, > whereas some of the other ones are more passive, but it is still weird. > > Or we can introduce a new word which just means "x1 is born to x2". > > mivbi'o, which would likely be modelled on mrobi'o, must be factored > into all of these considerations too.
oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se rorci [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born while stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out of your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary.
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Comment #8:
Re: Asymmetry
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Curtis W Franks (Mon Jan 16 23:51:43 2017)
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gleki wrote: > krtisfranks wrote: > > This word is weird in that it has time and place of birth terbri. Why are > > > other important life events (loss of virginity, marriage, divorce, death, > > > etc.) not given gismu which are equipped similarly? There maybe should be > a > > generic word for life event, too ("x1 experienced major life event x2 at > > time x3 in location x4"). Sure, this one is the only one that is > guaranteed > > to anyone with whom one interacts (except death and taxes, in our current > > > world) and someone actually does it (id est: births) to the subject, > > whereas some of the other ones are more passive, but it is still weird. > > > > Or we can introduce a new word which just means "x1 is born to x2". > > > > mivbi'o, which would likely be modelled on mrobi'o, must be factored > > into all of these considerations too. > > > > oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid > =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se rorci
> [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be > important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being > "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born while > stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out of > your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary.
That is a good point. But I would have just said "born via means x_i amd by standard x_j".
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Comment #9:
Re: Asymmetry
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gleki (Sat Jan 21 10:58:58 2017)
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krtisfranks wrote:
> gleki wrote: > > oops, discussion got disrupted. In regard to > > > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/comments.html?valsi=453;natlangword=0;commentid > > =3027;definition=453 what I mean is that either 'jbena' is just 'se rorci > > > [be fi zi'o]' or "co'a jmive" or it's not, in the latter case it can be
> > important to specify time-place of birth to understand how one is being
> > "born". if time is understood not as timestamp but as period (born while > > stopping being a larva and becoming an imago) and place (moulting out of > > your old shell), then dropping jbena3 and jbena4 is unnecessary. > > That is a good point. But I would have just said "born via means x_i amd by > standard x_j".
So jbena then becomes superfluous since we have co'a panzi or rorci (the latter for the case ">1 sexes" plus a special viewpoint). For stages of biodevelopment there needs to be a new brivla completing makcu with means of getting into the stage. Another brivla might be needed to shows the circle of life (e.g. imago => egg => larva => imago) like
x1 enters its new stage of development (e.g. by laying eggs) by procreating your-new-stage/offspring x2 (e.g. eggs of turning yourself into a larva).
This of course immediately leads to the bear-goo problem of "what is individuum?" but that can be expressed via additional means like ("no change of individuality from egg to larva" / "change of individuality from imago to egg")
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